Eric's question – "What would you do without…."
Question:
Sorry, to restart a thread like this; I can’t find the continuity of the conversation last night. I remembered something important regarding Eric’s question to me: "I wonder where you would be without your lithium Squiggles?" I remembered that some years back, when I was working, that I decided to quit the lithium. Within 2 months, I lost an awful lot of weight; so much so that people were wondering to me what kind of diet I was on. But by the end of about 3 months, I remember I started getting very depressed and crying, and decided that it was not a good idea, and I went back on the lithium and felt OK. Was this depression a result of lithium withdrawal or the underlying depression coming through – this must be a perennial question right? Also, speaking of diets, I am on a practically NO carbohydrate diet – just protein – fish, chicken, beef, fruit, vegetables and cheese – all at small amounts through the day. Does anyone know if NO carbs can lead to ketosis, because with my lithium that might be dangerous. Thanks all I hope to get to most of your posts today – will try. Squiggles
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry, to restart a thread like this; > I can’t find the continuity of the conversation > last night. I remembered something important > regarding Eric’s question to me: "I wonder where > you would be without your lithium Squiggles?" > I remembered that some years back, when I was > working, that I decided to quit the lithium. > Within 2 months, I lost an awful lot of weight; > so much so that people were wondering to me what > kind of diet I was on. But by the end of about > 3 months, I remember I started getting very > depressed and crying, and decided that it was > not a good idea, and I went back on the lithium > and felt OK. > Was this depression a result of lithium withdrawal > or the underlying depression coming through – this > must be a perennial question right? > Also, speaking of diets, I am on a practically NO carbohydrate > diet – just protein – fish, chicken, beef, fruit, vegetables > and cheese – all at small amounts through the day. Does > anyone know if NO carbs can lead to ketosis, because with > my lithium that might be dangerous. > Thanks all > I hope to get to most of your posts today – will try. > Squiggles
Hey Squiggles. The best correlate to your personal diet is the Zone series of books. They’d be at the library or Chapters, if you wanted to look through them. You could develop insulin resistance on this diet, but it’s probably less likely than on more typical carbohydrate diets. The best way to maintain insulin sensitivity is to make sure you get a good portion of omega-3 fatty acids. This only works, though, before the pancreas poops out. Regards, Larry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry, to restart a thread like this; > I can’t find the continuity of the conversation > last night. I remembered something important > regarding Eric’s question to me: "I wonder where > you would be without your lithium Squiggles?" > I remembered that some years back, when I was > working, that I decided to quit the lithium. > Within 2 months, I lost an awful lot of weight; > so much so that people were wondering to me what > kind of diet I was on. But by the end of about > 3 months, I remember I started getting very > depressed and crying, and decided that it was > not a good idea, and I went back on the lithium > and felt OK. > Was this depression a result of lithium withdrawal > or the underlying depression coming through – this > must be a perennial question right? > Also, speaking of diets, I am on a practically NO carbohydrate > diet – just protein – fish, chicken, beef, fruit, vegetables > and cheese – all at small amounts through the day. Does > anyone know if NO carbs can lead to ketosis, because with > my lithium that might be dangerous. > Thanks all > I hope to get to most of your posts today – will try. > Squiggles > Hey Squiggles. The best correlate to your personal diet is the Zone series > of books. They’d be at the library or Chapters, if you wanted to look > through them. You could develop insulin resistance on this diet, but it’s > probably less likely than on more typical carbohydrate diets. The best way > to maintain insulin sensitivity is to make sure you get a good portion of > omega-3 fatty acids. This only works, though, before the pancreas poops out. > Regards, > Larry
Uhm, the ZONE diets – OK – I will look when I got Chapters, because I still want to get that book by David Healy – it is scholarly and likely not to be there though – maybe I will try Indigo down the street. Yes, I know low carb diet has to do with insulin, but I am not diabetic – just overweight – I just thought that since the kidneys have to work overtime with lithium excretion that perhaps this is not the best diet for me. But I think that it is precisly the ketosis that makes you lose, I don’t know. I am willing to just follow something that will bring me back to size 10. Squiggles
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Squiggles. The best correlate to your personal diet is the Zone series > of books. They’d be at the library or Chapters, if you wanted to look > through them. You could develop insulin resistance on this diet, but it’s > probably less likely than on more typical carbohydrate diets. The best way > to maintain insulin sensitivity is to make sure you get a good portion of > omega-3 fatty acids. This only works, though, before the pancreas poops out. > Regards, > Larry > Uhm, the ZONE diets – OK – I will look when I got Chapters, because > I still want to get that book by David Healy – it is scholarly > and likely not to be there though – maybe I will try Indigo down > the street. Yes, I know low carb diet has to do with insulin, > but I am not diabetic – just overweight – I just thought that since > the kidneys have to work overtime with lithium excretion that perhaps > this is not the best diet for me. But I think that it is precisly > the ketosis that makes you lose, I don’t know. I am willing to > just follow something that will bring me back to size 10. > Squiggles
Ketosis occurs when the body is unable to burn glucose and other sugars for fuel, and instead turns to burning fats. On the surface, that seems desirable, but it’s generally not. In type 2 diabetes (adult onset), insulin resistance, and what is known as Syndrome X, glucose uptake is reduced or even absent because the insulin-dependent uptake of sugars across the cell membrane does not function properly. Cells then burn fats (and proteins to some extent) as energy sources. Poly-unsaturated fats do not burn "cleanly", as the unsaturated bonds oxidize to ketones. It’s not clear if it’s the high serum glucose content, or the increase in ketones in the blood, or both together, which lead to the neuropathies seen in diabetes and its related syndromes. Artificial ketogenic situations come in two flavours: the ketogenic diet, and fasting. A true ketogenic diet is low in both carbohydrate and protein calories, and derives most of its energy inputs from fats. This extreme situation has been found to help control treatment-unresponsive epilepsy. It’s not for most people. Fasting induces ketogenesis in healthy people after the body has depleted its stores of quickly available sugars. The liver retains a reserve in the form of glucagon (sp?) for emergency energy, and there are other resources within cells via anaerobic processes, but by and large, ketosis is a starvation process. It’s believed that episodic ketogenesis actually trains the body to store a higher proportion of fat than it otherwise would, which is counter-productive to your cause. I think the Zone series will give you good insight into what you’re trying to accomplish. I, too, rely on a high-protein, low-carb diet. I just do better that way. Regards, Larry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hey Squiggles. The best correlate to your personal diet is the Zone > series > > of books. They’d be at the library or Chapters, if you wanted to look > > through them. You could develop insulin resistance on this diet, but > it’s > > probably less likely than on more typical carbohydrate diets. The best > way > > to maintain insulin sensitivity is to make sure you get a good portion > of > > omega-3 fatty acids. This only works, though, before the pancreas poops > out. > > Regards, > > Larry > Uhm, the ZONE diets – OK – I will look when I got Chapters, because > I still want to get that book by David Healy – it is scholarly > and likely not to be there though – maybe I will try Indigo down > the street. Yes, I know low carb diet has to do with insulin, > but I am not diabetic – just overweight – I just thought that since > the kidneys have to work overtime with lithium excretion that perhaps > this is not the best diet for me. But I think that it is precisly > the ketosis that makes you lose, I don’t know. I am willing to > just follow something that will bring me back to size 10. > Squiggles > Ketosis occurs when the body is unable to burn glucose and other sugars for > fuel, and instead turns to burning fats. On the surface, that seems > desirable, but it’s generally not. > In type 2 diabetes (adult onset), insulin resistance, and what is known as > Syndrome X, glucose uptake is reduced or even absent because the > insulin-dependent uptake of sugars across the cell membrane does not > function properly. Cells then burn fats (and proteins to some extent) as > energy sources. Poly-unsaturated fats do not burn "cleanly", as the > unsaturated bonds oxidize to ketones. It’s not clear if it’s the high serum > glucose content, or the increase in ketones in the blood, or both together, > which lead to the neuropathies seen in diabetes and its related syndromes. > Artificial ketogenic situations come in two flavours: the ketogenic diet, > and fasting. > A true ketogenic diet is low in both carbohydrate and protein calories, and > derives most of its energy inputs from fats. This extreme situation has been > found to help control treatment-unresponsive epilepsy. It’s not for most > people. > Fasting induces ketogenesis in healthy people after the body has depleted > its stores of quickly available sugars. The liver retains a reserve in the > form of glucagon (sp?) for emergency energy, and there are other resources > within cells via anaerobic processes, but by and large, ketosis is a > starvation process. It’s believed that episodic ketogenesis actually trains > the body to store a higher proportion of fat than it otherwise would, which > is counter-productive to your cause. > I think the Zone series will give you good insight into what you’re trying > to accomplish. I, too, rely on a high-protein, low-carb diet. I just do > better that way. > Regards, > Larry
Thanks Larry, You must be a Nutriotionist – doctor? Yes, what you say is consistent with what I read on the net, as well as the fact that my doctor checked me for diabetes – which I do not have, but I am overweight and I have peripheral neuropathy- I have no idea where it came from. I have a number of suspects: one of which is that it happened close to ingestion of Canola oil in a salad. I am waiting for those EMG, etc. tests – but I think I will try to follow the high protein – low carb diet in moderation. I bet you find you have more energy with that. take care Squiggles
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Was this depression a result of lithium withdrawal >or the underlying depression coming through – this >must be a perennial question right? > Squiggles, use some common sense. You have been off the lithium for three > months when you crashed right? That is more than enough time to have gone thru > any "lithium withdrawal." I never heard of anybody having "lithium withdrawal" > anyway. Lithium’s not addictive at all like Klonopin. It never has had a > reputation for having severe withdrawal like say, Paxil or Effexor (due to > short half life). > Even if you did have lithium withdrawal, it would have been long gone before > three months was up. To put it bluntly, Id say any crashing you had was cause > you were off lithium and this allowed whatever mental condition to return in > spades. The lithium was protecting you. > If you doubt lithium was protecting you or that you have a serious medical > condition, and would like to go by your Freud which you hold so dear, Id > suggest totally going off all drugs for at least six months, probably a year > and aggressively pursue talk therapy. Read Freud and other psychology oriented > self help books. Go off your drugs Squiggles and begin working you ass off on > those underlying "issues" which are the root cause of your psychiatric > condition. > Then after youve done this for a year report back to us how you feel drug free > and off meds and after having undergone aggressive talk therapy and "issue" > resolvement. I want to hear how it went for you. > Eric
You may be right. I don’t know frankly. I just looked at the American Family Physician site, and it says a control group and a lithium group of women were tested for discontinuation syndromes, and after 40 weeks, both were the same. I have not had the time to search for more – got to go out. At any rate, just because I am critical does not mean I am not frightened and btw I am still on 0.50 mg Klonopin as I suffered something like a seizure going down and had to raise it again. One thing you don’t know is the kind of torture they put me through at McGill – I will not go into details because it involves harrassment which I was subjected to while having to cover the entire Ph.D. programme in 2 years, with 4 TAships; not only was I exhausted, but I was under threat the whole time. I believe what I experienced at the time of breakdown was severe disassociation of personality. The faculty and the administration turned a blind eye to the harrassment for a number of self-interested reasons. You don’t any of that and you never will, but I think it contributed and possibly was the cause of my breakdown (the Valium I was taking may have also had a lot to do with it). I will never ever ever go back to school. The wound I received from that, will never be erased in my memory. Anyway, I hope the Seroquel helped you and one thing Eric, I would like you ever so much more if you were not anti-Semitic- if you wish I will send you some URLs – those people – innocent – they suffered the pains of the damned. I hope you will change. Life is to be enjoyed. Squiggles http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000801/tips/16.html
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Hey Squiggles. The best correlate to your personal diet is the Zone > series > > > of books. They’d be at the library or Chapters, if you wanted to look > > > through them. You could develop insulin resistance on this diet, but > it’s > > > probably less likely than on more typical carbohydrate diets. The best > way > > > to maintain insulin sensitivity is to make sure you get a good portion > of > > > omega-3 fatty acids. This only works, though, before the pancreas poops > out. > > > Regards, > > > Larry > > Uhm, the ZONE diets – OK – I will look when I got Chapters, because > > I still want to get that book by David Healy – it is scholarly > > and likely not to be there though – maybe I will try Indigo down > > the street. Yes, I know low carb diet has to do with insulin, > > but I am not diabetic – just overweight – I just thought that since > > the kidneys have to work overtime with lithium excretion that perhaps > > this is not the best diet for me. But I think that it is precisly > > the ketosis that makes you lose, I don’t know. I am willing to > > just follow something that will bring me back to size 10. > > Squiggles > Ketosis occurs when the body is unable to burn glucose and other sugars for > fuel, and instead turns to burning fats. On the surface, that seems > desirable, but it’s generally not. > In type 2 diabetes (adult onset), insulin resistance, and what is known as > Syndrome X, glucose uptake is reduced or even absent because the > insulin-dependent uptake of sugars across the cell membrane does not > function properly. Cells then burn fats (and proteins to some extent) as > energy sources. Poly-unsaturated fats do not burn "cleanly", as the > unsaturated bonds oxidize to ketones. It’s not clear if it’s the high serum > glucose content, or the increase in ketones in the blood, or both together, > which lead to the neuropathies seen in diabetes and its related syndromes. > Artificial ketogenic situations come in two flavours: the ketogenic diet, > and fasting. > A true ketogenic diet is low in both carbohydrate and protein calories, and > derives most of its energy inputs from fats. This extreme situation has been > found to help control treatment-unresponsive epilepsy. It’s not for most > people. > Fasting induces ketogenesis in healthy people after the body has depleted > its stores of quickly available sugars. The liver retains a reserve in the > form of glucagon (sp?) for emergency energy, and there are other resources > within cells via anaerobic processes, but by and large, ketosis is a > starvation process. It’s believed that episodic ketogenesis actually trains > the body to store a higher proportion of fat than it otherwise would, which > is counter-productive to your cause. > I think the Zone series will give you good insight into what you’re trying > to accomplish. I, too, rely on a high-protein, low-carb diet. I just do > better that way. > Regards, > Larry > Thanks Larry, > You must be a Nutriotionist – doctor?
Part schooling, part avocation. You can’t have a healthy mind in a sick body, is my way of looking at the problems we face. > Yes, what you say > is consistent with what I read on the net, as well as > the fact that my doctor checked me for diabetes – which I do > not have, but I am overweight and I have peripheral neuropathy- > I have no idea where it came from.
How’s your digestion? No graphic descriptions required, but are you stable, or troubled? There are many reasons for peripheral neuropathy, but some stem from malnutrition. Despite "common knowledge" you can have functional deficits in nutrients despite having a balanced diet. Did your doctor check B12 status? > I have a number of suspects: > one of which is that it happened close to ingestion of > Canola oil in a salad.
Erucic acid levels in canola are closely monitored. I doubt there’s a link, but you could be allergic to the traces of proteins that remain in refined vegetable oils. Erucic acid is a substance produced at about 2% in rapeseed. This fatty acid was eliminated through intensive selection and some genetic manipulation. The result, a Canadian first, a safe-for-humans vegetable oil from rapeseed, Canada oil, or canola. > I am waiting for those EMG, etc. tests –
Now, they are a thrill a minute. Nerve conduction studies are quite bizarre to experience. > but I think I will try to follow the high protein – low carb > diet in moderation. > I bet you find you have more energy with that.
Indeed. The whole point is to maintain energy. I get all slowed down on high carbs. > take care > Squiggles
You too. Happy Thanksgiving. Larry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You may be right. I don’t know frankly. I just looked at the > American Family Physician site, and it says a control group and > a lithium group of women were tested for discontinuation syndromes, > and after 40 weeks, both were the same. > I have not had the time to search for more – got to go out. At > any rate, just because I am critical does not mean I am not > frightened and btw I am still on 0.50 mg Klonopin as I suffered > something like a seizure going down and had to raise it again. > One thing you don’t know is the kind of torture they put me > through at McGill – I will not go into details because it > involves harrassment which I was subjected to while having > to cover the entire Ph.D. programme in 2 years, with 4 TAships; > not only was I exhausted, but I was under threat the whole time. > I believe what I experienced at the time of breakdown was > severe disassociation of personality. The faculty and the > administration turned a blind eye to the harrassment for > a number of self-interested reasons. > You don’t any of that and you never will, but I think it > contributed and possibly was the cause of my breakdown (the > Valium I was taking may have also had a lot to do with it). > I will never ever ever go back to school. The wound I received > from that, will never be erased in my memory.
what a horrible story. there is so much pressure in the ‘real world’. im not sure i understand it…. well dont give up on school. i didnt have the greatest time there > Anyway, I hope the Seroquel helped you and one thing Eric, > I would like you ever so much more if you were not anti-Semitic- > if you wish I will send you some URLs – those people – innocent – > they suffered the pains of the damned. I hope you will change. > Life is to be enjoyed.
i really do not think he is truly anti-semitic. think of the area in which he lives now… that does make a difference….. sometimes americans dont think about what they are saying…… i think eric -would- like to enjoy life a lot and is pissed cause hes not enjoying anything much at all right now and hates that…… thats what i think. i hope the seroquel helps too.. hmm… yes definitely.. whatever it takes is what i think these days. but, do not stay on a med if you dont like it too. that is a bad problem i think too… <<<<<take care>>>>>…. anna > Squiggles > http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000801/tips/16.html
– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken eyes and learn to see all your life you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Was this depression a result of lithium withdrawal > >or the underlying depression coming through – this > >must be a perennial question right? > Squiggles, use some common sense. You have been off the lithium for three > months when you crashed right? That is more than enough time to have gone thru > any "lithium withdrawal." I never heard of anybody having "lithium withdrawal" > anyway. Lithium’s not addictive at all like Klonopin. It never has had a > reputation for having severe withdrawal like say, Paxil or Effexor (due to > short half life). > Even if you did have lithium withdrawal, it would have been long gone before > three months was up. To put it bluntly, Id say any crashing you had was cause > you were off lithium and this allowed whatever mental condition to return in > spades. The lithium was protecting you. > If you doubt lithium was protecting you or that you have a serious medical > condition, and would like to go by your Freud which you hold so dear, Id > suggest totally going off all drugs for at least six months, probably a year > and aggressively pursue talk therapy. Read Freud and other psychology oriented > self help books. Go off your drugs Squiggles and begin working you ass off on > those underlying "issues" which are the root cause of your psychiatric > condition. > Then after youve done this for a year report back to us how you feel drug free > and off meds and after having undergone aggressive talk therapy and "issue" > resolvement. I want to hear how it went for you. > Eric > You may be right. I don’t know frankly. I just looked at the > American Family Physician site, and it says a control group and > a lithium group of women were tested for discontinuation syndromes, > and after 40 weeks, both were the same. > I have not had the time to search for more – got to go out. At > any rate, just because I am critical does not mean I am not > frightened and btw I am still on 0.50 mg Klonopin as I suffered > something like a seizure going down and had to raise it again. > One thing you don’t know is the kind of torture they put me > through at McGill – I will not go into details because it > involves harrassment which I was subjected to while having > to cover the entire Ph.D. programme in 2 years, with 4 TAships; > not only was I exhausted, but I was under threat the whole time. > I believe what I experienced at the time of breakdown was > severe disassociation of personality. The faculty and the > administration turned a blind eye to the harrassment for > a number of self-interested reasons. > You don’t any of that and you never will, but I think it > contributed and possibly was the cause of my breakdown (the > Valium I was taking may have also had a lot to do with it). > I will never ever ever go back to school. The wound I received > from that, will never be erased in my memory.
I am sorry anyone put you through that….and stole your ability to feel safe in the academic envirnment which you seem so suitable for. I relate…as something similiar occuring to me 11 years ago..is pivotal to my problems. A situation occurred stole my ability to feel safe at work..so I will not go back to doing what I otherwise loved..professional career…etc. Who are these people..who can steal away a all one worked for from the age of 16… Lot more to it of course…I been stressed for three years prior..having my son…born with congenital birth defects needing operations that failed and made his problems worse..having to litigate for two years with his father…to ensure insurance was maintained…etc…so I took the trauma of being held against my will real bad…and have yet to find a way home from it….did the poker thing instead own boss and all for a decade…now I really should find a way home…but dont know how to… I stopped saying I will NEVER go back…though thats an improvement…. I am sorry it happened to you… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyway, I hope the Seroquel helped you and one thing Eric, > I would like you ever so much more if you were not anti-Semitic- > if you wish I will send you some URLs – those people – innocent – > they suffered the pains of the damned. I hope you will change. > Life is to be enjoyed. > Squiggles > http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000801/tips/16.html
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Larry, > You must be a Nutriotionist – doctor? > Part schooling, part avocation. You can’t have a healthy mind in a sick > body, is my way of looking at the problems we face. > Yes, what you say > is consistent with what I read on the net, as well as > the fact that my doctor checked me for diabetes – which I do > not have, but I am overweight and I have peripheral neuropathy- > I have no idea where it came from. > How’s your digestion? No graphic descriptions required, but are you stable, > or troubled? There are many reasons for peripheral neuropathy, but some stem > from malnutrition. Despite "common knowledge" you can have functional > deficits in nutrients despite having a balanced diet. Did your doctor check > B12 status? > I have a number of suspects: > one of which is that it happened close to ingestion of > Canola oil in a salad. > Erucic acid levels in canola are closely monitored. I doubt there’s a link, > but you could be allergic to the traces of proteins that remain in refined > vegetable oils. Erucic acid is a substance produced at about 2% in rapeseed. > This fatty acid was eliminated through intensive selection and some genetic > manipulation. The result, a Canadian first, a safe-for-humans vegetable oil > from rapeseed, Canada oil, or canola. > I am waiting for those EMG, etc. tests – > Now, they are a thrill a minute. Nerve conduction studies are quite bizarre > to experience. > but I think I will try to follow the high protein – low carb > diet in moderation. > I bet you find you have more energy with that. > Indeed. The whole point is to maintain energy. I get all slowed down on high > carbs. > take care > Squiggles > You too. Happy Thanksgiving. > Larry
Hi Larry, Thank you for your good wishes and explanation. About digestion – well it has not been the same for a year or so; that is because of my benzo withdrawal – among many other side effects of that withdrawal – indigestion, heartburn, daily diarrhea, which has now gotten better on account of raising the dose, and of course a physical anxiety which seems to have changed all my gastro-perspiration everything having to do with fluids in my body. No doubt there may be a connection. There are many possible causes of course – the weird thing about my carpal tunnel was that it was so acute. I was sitting at my chair, and all of sudden I got a histaminic-like reaction, that felt as if my hands were stung by a million bees – and what followed what was pretty severe carpal tunnel requiring braces – I was quite terrified. Maybe w/d, maybe a nerve in the back, maybe canola allergy, who knows. Tx – good to have a nutriotinist on board – you guys know so much. Squiggles
Response:
> I am sorry anyone put you through that….and stole your ability to feel > safe in the academic envirnment which you seem so suitable for.
Hi Linda, Thanks – I don’t like to repeat the experiences in my memory – I am afraid it left a mark. But I appreciate your sympathetic reply very much. > I relate…as something similiar occuring to me 11 years ago..is pivotal to > my problems. A situation occurred stole my ability to feel safe at work..so > I will not go back to doing what I otherwise loved..professional > career…etc.
I wonder what that is – I don’t think you ever told. > Who are these people..who can steal away a all one worked for from the age > of 16… > Lot more to it of course…I been stressed for three years prior..having my > son…born with congenital birth defects needing operations that failed and > made his problems worse..having to litigate for two years with his > father…to ensure insurance was maintained…etc…so I took the trauma of > being held against my will real bad…and have yet to find a way home from > it….did the poker thing instead own boss and all for a decade…now I > really should find a way home…but dont know how to… I stopped saying I > will NEVER go back…though thats an improvement…. > I am sorry it happened to you…
Oh gee, I am sorry Linda. I have been so selfish to think that not getting a Ph.D is such a big deal. These things you describe would touch you personally, I am sure. I am glad you are able to talk about it here. Squiggles
Response:
> Whats the problem with the harassment at school got to do with you TODAY > Squiggles? It suffices to say that the harassment you received in school was > the environmental stress which caused you to have your nervous breakdown and > get put on lithium. However it was a LONG time ago. Its over with. The change > in your brain occured a LONG time ago. Its over with.
Hi Eric, The point is, that the "change" in my brain may have been transient under the stress – are you saying stress can make a person bipolar? Is there no possibility I would have gotten over it? I am asking seriously, because I do not know the answer to that question. > The fact of the matter is that you have the here and now to deal with. You are > no longer the same as before you had your nervous breakdown. The breakdown > obviously caused some major changes in your body and health…changes which are > most likely chronic.
Well, I don’t know – do you? You seem so sure. > I dont go around obsessing about moping about the original environmental > stresses which occured to me four years ago and led to me developing major > depression.
No need to chastise me. I am not obsessing – it’s just an injustice that changed my life, and necessitated further possibly unnecessary drugs when really the cause was stress and the drugs themselves. In a way I hope you are right, because I am not about to make major med changes after many years. I must say though, that memory tends to romanticize things; and it is true that I never get depressed with lithium though I did before I ever took it. I am very curious to find out if it has that effects on normals – I think I saw a study on Virtual Hospital, but I don’t think it was conclusive. Anyway, about the Jews – I think I should send you some URLs, though they will probably make me sick to look at – you must know what happened – I can’t believe that you are ignorant and if you are not, that you are so heartless. Squiggles
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It used to be … > A psych or neurological dx was highly dependent upon ones responsiveness to > meds.. > you presented with symptoms.. they take a stab or a WAG at your dx… > then they experiment with meds…beginining with those for the initial > DX…and if you respond positively to the med…thats the dx.. > .if you dont….well they try others meds in that category.. > .if still no response..and they have to change the type of RX you used to > get a dx change.. > nowadays…they are using all the meds to treat all the dx’s and see > nothing wrong with a dx of depression or PTSD while giving you mood > stabilizers..and AP’s etc.. > and now they are treating depression and PTSD with AP’s and mood stablizers > cause they found those disorders respond to those meds…too…. someone > who responded to one of those meds way back when… has to question whether > if they presented today..they get that DX or PTSD and depression instead.. > … > not sure the rx is wrong though….Squiggles..you do so well on the LI.. > . > . > >Hi Eric, > >The point is, that the "change" in my brain may have been transient > >under the stress – are you saying stress can make a person bipolar? > >Is there no possibility I would have gotten over it? I am asking > >seriously, because I do not know the answer to that question. > Squiggles…please dont smart ass me. Its well known that mental illness > oftentimes is activated by severe stress. My point is that once it > develops, > lessening the stress or eliminating it doesnt tend to make the mental > illness > go away. Unfortunately it doesnt work that way I wish it did. > With milder mood disorders (dysthymia) this might be the case many times, > removing or decreasing the stress gets rid of dysthymia…this may or may > not > work. > You dont even have clinical depression I dont even know why Im bothering > to > explain this to you. This is what has happened to this NG in the past year > we’ve gotten so many bipolar folks on this NG as regulars who DO NOT HAVE > clinical depression but instead have manic depression. Its obvious reading > your > stuff you never experienced major depression. > >> The fact of the matter is that you have the here and now to deal with. > You > >are > >> no longer the same as before you had your nervous breakdown. The > breakdown > >> obviously caused some major changes in your body and health…changes > which > >are > >> most likely chronic. > >Well, I don’t know – do you? You seem so sure. > Yes Squiggles. Bipolar manic depression is well known to be a > chronic…oftentimes lifetime disease. Again…dont smartass me. Go ask > your > doctor this question. You know what the answer will be. > >> I dont go around obsessing about moping about the original > environmental > >> stresses which occured to me four years ago and led to me developing > major > >> depression. > >No need to chastise me. I am not obsessing – it’s just an > >injustice that changed my life, and necessitated further > >possibly unnecessary drugs when really the cause was stress > >and the drugs themselves. In a way I hope you are right, because > >I am not about to make major med changes after many years. > Well why do you bring it up? > >I must say though, that memory tends to romanticize things; > >and it is true that I never get depressed with lithium though > >I did before I ever took it. I am very curious to find out if > >it has that effects on normals – I think I saw a study on Virtual > >Hospital, but I don’t think it was conclusive. > >Anyway, about the Jews – I think I should send you some URLs, > >though they will probably make me sick to look at – you must > >know what happened – I can’t believe that you are ignorant > >and if you are not, that you are so heartless. > Dont send me any fucking URLs. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm
Linda, One thing that is very encouraging about lithium – it seems to work wonders on so many conditions: Unipolar Bipolar Post Traumatic Anorexia Parkinson’s Alzheimer’s Aggression Insomnia Hyperthyroidism Leukemia It’s dynamite. And I suspect that I am better than normals with respect to depression, heck why stop there 
Squiggles
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> The best thing about it is its natural.. > I want to use it anytime I feel myself getting triggered and feel like I am > manifesting PTSD… course they want me to use the benzo……but I know the > Lithium works better …cause I took that til I could see my doctor…and it > just STPPED the escalating PTSD symptoms right in their track.. > sigh….I guess there is a problems prescribing ’ LI as needed" they dont > have prescriging benzo’s as needed.. > ..
Linda, It does feel "natural" too – this is the amazing thing about lithium – it feel like water – it does not feel like a drug at all and your head and consciousness is entirely clear. I know that is not the case with the synthetic drugs because I have tried them, and I know that until you get used to them at least you are always aware that they are drugs. Of course lithium can be deadly if overdosed and toxic if too high and then I imagine you feel very sick — I have not felt that yet I don’t think – the problem with polypharmacy is — right now I am still feeling the w/d from Klonopin and sometimes you cannot tell one apart from the other. I feel for people who have AIDS or cancer and have to take so many drugs. The last time I was at the pharmacy I saw a poor senior citizen with his vial compartment of oh, must have been 9 drugs in each pocket. Poor man. Yes, lithium on low doses I am certain would be good for many ailments, and who knows maybe it will be soon used that way. Squiggles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Squiggles
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You have a big ego Eric – but that’s OK – cause I think I have an even bigger one – LOL Yes, it is indeed sublime that we can see eye to eye on something, as microscopically miniscule as it may be. Yup, lithium has been known to calm people throughout history. I have a theory about Greek civilization – that is became great because the water contained lithium – they used to go to the springs for inspiration and a cool head. > she gets normal again. Ive wondered if maybe its that small amount of lithium > in those vitamins thats keeping her on "even keel?" You think so? > This sounds like the sort of thing Linda would be interested in.
As for your mother, I rather doubt that the small amount would make that much of a difference but who knows – they used to use it in 7UP the soft drink, at around the same time they used cocaine in Coca Cola. Squiggles
